HTML Elements and tabbing

I was working with a sight impaired learner that use tabbing and JAWS exclusively and we noticed a couple of behaviors I'm working on resolving.

We noticed that there was an odd tabbing order where something was in focus, but not visible on the screen. I can't recall exactly how JAWS was reading the element aloud, but thinking about tab order in the title explorer, my guess is that it may be an HTML Extension at the top level of the page.

Does anyone have a JAWS user that could test that with some of their courses? I am able to add "tabindex = -1" to the element through a RunJS, so I'll be testing that to see if it changes anything.

Discussion (12)

Sorry, I can't help on this one... not versed in JAWs.

What type of HTML Extension is it? A Custom Div will include link that may be part of the tab order?

@comalley5856 ?

@lsilver - Done! I uploaded the "adapted" version of the course, which displays the same behavior as the actual course. As @timk can attest, most of my courses are, shall we say, robust. :) This is one I was used while working with a JAWS user to learn more about how it reads courses and items as I work towards meeting accessibility requirements.

One reason for the "title manager frame" to be required so it cannot be deactivated is a randomized test. Probably to keep track on the randomization. Publishing to scorm also seems to require it, probably to count the session time.

Interestingly enough, I can change that setting on all BUT the course I published as an example. Checking my other courses, the only thing selected is the javascript title manager and I have the option to change the settings for both. However, on the course up online, I can't change the Title Manager frame option and I can't figure that one out. I thought it might have to do with accessibility settings on, but that didn't resolve it...

Is there a variable threshold at which Lectora forces this option? The particular course I'm looking at has quite a few variables, since there are multiple pages with radio buttons, entry fields, drop downs, etc. It's probably my most variable intensive course, since I need to track so many actions that impact each page.


I'm attaching a video with audio of what NVDA does with the page starting with a refresh of the page and reading up to the text.

  • At 0:05, the reader reads "title manager out of frame" then continues reading as expected
  • At 0:34, I tab to the first button on the page.
  • At 0:39, I tab backwards and there is nothing read
  • At 0:45, I tab backwards again and it reads out of frame, part of the URL, then "title handler"(?) then title manager out of frame.
  • At 1:05, I tab back to the Favorites toolbar, then forward again and get the silence, then the out of frame text

Looking at the source, I can't puzzle out what it might be reading. I may experiment if I can drudge up some time, since I have 3 actions that set keyboard controls at the title level, then the custom CSS at the AU level. The page I'm testing from is

That looks like the issue - I tested it on a course I did not have a randomized test and by default it was unchecked. Set the test to randomize and I'm locked out of changes.

This is a serious bummer because of what it does with screen readers on all other pages if it is in fact the title manager that's at issue. While it's not a show-stopper for screen readers or keyboard users, it's definitely an annoyance.

I looked at the titlemgr.html and wonder if there's some code I can add to it that hides it from tab order and hides it from screen readers. I checked the source code for the page as well and don't see any way to do so either.

Maybe it's the title manager frame? You could check if you can unselect "Use title manager frame" in the publishing options and whether it makes a difference.

Hi @@JasonADal - Would you mind sharing your Lectora course with me so I can take a look and see what might be happening? You can upload it directly here:

I'll see if we can recreate the issue and determine why it might be happening.

Thanks, Jason. We'll take a look. As mentioned, using a randomized test will in fact force the Title Manager frame, and so will publishing to SCORM. But we certainly want to prevent any inconsistent and unexpected behavior from JAWS, regardless of publish options.

which displays the same behavior as the actual course.